Roll-back and feedback on the new UX

Lens 2024 Early Access
#1

Hello,

Thank you for the outstanding and generous efforts for the team that is actively developing the K8S Lens IDE and making it widely available for all. It really is a game changer in the Kubernetes world, and I cannot imagine living without it.

However, the latest September 2024 release is severely degraded in terms of performance, UI/UX, features and overall usability than the previous release as of August 2024.

I rolled back to the previous release 2024.8.291605 using this link. I’m running on a Mac ARM processor.

Mainly, here are my feedback points that made me roll-back:
1 - Seeing multiple clusters together on the side-bar should be optional as it’s a much more smaller niche use-case than connecting to only 1 cluster and see it full-fledged.
2 - The sidebar no longer shows many of the the components that used to appear before, especially CRDs.
3 - Shortcuts hardly work, ctrl+shift+P for example was 10x more seamless in the previous version.
4 - The UI takes ages to load the cluster, and ages to switch views. The new version hardly seemed usable at all.
5 - The colours, fonts, sizes, spaces, etc in the previous version were a lot clearer, bigger and better. Visually, I would choose the old version any day.
6 - Searching via Ctrl+F hardly responds.
7 - We still need a keyboard shortcut to switch namespaces by typing without any clicks.
8 - Overall performance, debugging, visuals were just so much better, easier, seamless and easier on the eye than the new version.

So kindly re-consider allowing the old UI/UX to co-exist with the new version, or in all cases, I would wait for more updates for the new version to mature before I can use it.

Thanks

2 Likes
#2

Thank you for your valuable feedback. It is greatly appreciated and helps us continuously improve the experience!

1 - Seeing multiple clusters together on the side-bar should be optional as it’s a much more smaller niche use-case than connecting to only 1 cluster and see it full-fledged.

For focusing into one cluster there is “Drill into” option in the Navigator:

Screenshot 2024-10-02 at 10.56.36
Screenshot 2024-10-02 at 10.56.36768×464 64.8 KB

Would love to hear if this helps!

2 - The sidebar no longer shows many of the the components that used to appear before, especially CRDs.

This sounds like a bug, all the same things should be there. Could you provide more info about this?

3 - Shortcuts hardly work, ctrl+shift+P for example was 10x more seamless in the previous version.

This is a known issue and we are working on it.

4 - The UI takes ages to load the cluster, and ages to switch views. The new version hardly seemed usable at all.

It appears that certain environment-specific issues may be contributing to the slowness. That being said, we are committed to incrementally improving the tab loading times to enhance overall performance.

5 - The colours, fonts, sizes, spaces, etc in the previous version were a lot clearer, bigger and better. Visually, I would choose the old version any day.

Let’s see what we can do here, I’ll pass the feedback to the team :blue_heart:

6 - Searching via Ctrl+F hardly responds.

By this, are you referring to actions like searching for Pods within a tab? If so, it could be related to an issue with tab focus. We’ll need to investigate this further to better understand the cause.

7 - We still need a keyboard shortcut to switch namespaces by typing without any clicks.

I completely agree. While the new namespace selector has improved in terms of keyboard accessibility, we acknowledge that it currently lacks a direct shortcut. Although it’s possible to reach it by tabbing multiple times, we understand this isn’t the most convenient solution.

8 - Overall performance, debugging, visuals were just so much better, easier, seamless and easier on the eye than the new version.

We recognize that there are still areas where performance can be improved, and we are actively working to address them. Regarding the overall visuals, we understand that achieving a design that satisfies everyone can be challenging, especially during major UI/UX transitions. Nonetheless, your feedback is invaluable, and we are taking it seriously as we continue to enhance the product.

#3

I am using clusters that have OIDC setup and every once in a while I just get a lock next to certain clusters and I am not able to do anything on them. I am guessing that has to do with auth? I cannot seem to get the lock to go away(connecting/disconnecting) apart from restarting lens fully which also breaks the port-forwards I have open. This is really hammering my flow as it happens every 10 minutes.

#4

One UX issue I experienced was that when opening a node shell from the Nodes tab, it was only accessible from the Nodes tab. If I switched to the Pods tab on the same cluster, the node shell was not accessible.

I have also rolled back to the previous version of Lens.

#5

How did it work better in the previous versions? I’m trying to understand how the new UI breaks this flow.

#6

Thanks for the feedback! If I understand this correctly you would prefer the behavior where terminal dock tabs are cluster-wide, meaning they stay at the bottom (dock) across different tabs for the same cluster?

Workaround: you can open node shell from Pods tab by opening the pod details, clicking the node and then clicking “Node shell”.

#7

Correct, as with the previous version of Lens I would expect all terminal dock tabs to be cluster-wide.

Also, now that you’ve got the different tabs available, it would be super cool to see split-screen view, similar to VSCode, for having multiple tabs open side-by-side.

1 Like
#8

The new version seems to be quite slow. Transitioning between different resource types is not as smooth as it used to be.

I very much like that it has Metrics server integration now, however other than that the update has been a noticeable downgrade.

#9

Thanks for the feedback! As mentioned this is definitely something we want to improve.

#10

Not necessarily the new UI that breaks it, but just in general the new update has caused this lock to appear and not be fixable without restart.

1 Like
#11

One more question because I’m still not sure how we can fix the issue properly. Is the old version showing an error when OIDC token expires and you click “Reconnect” to make it go away?

#12

Hi,
I also rolled back to the old version, after seeing this completely broken UI/UX.

  • no favorites anymore.
  • Tabs from different clusters are mixed now
  • bad readability, smaller text and ><
  • I’m also missing icons for the main entries in the list (e.g. Nodes, Workloads, Network,…)

→ This is so much worse than the last version. :confused:
Won’t update, until this is fixed, maybe switch to another tool.

#13

@a.bauer Thanks for the feedback. It is important for us to see these common patterns in users to keep improving the product.

  • no favorites anymore.

We are currently working to include an improved mechanism to add favorites, so you can jump easier to certain resources.

  • Tabs from different clusters are mixed now

That’s right, this is intentional as it is a step forward to allow user to see resources from different clusters easier (potentially simultaneously in the future). You can drag the tabs and organize them in a way that makes sense for your usage, you can colorize the clusters according to your preference or add icons in Cluster Settings, to identify those tabs easier. We are working to create easier ways to jump between them.

  • bad readability, smaller text and ><

You can increase the spacing for tables in the Preferences > Tables section > Row Line Height or the font-sizes for editors in Preference > Editor > Font-size to tweak the visual appearance. Alternatively (maybe best for your case), you can “Zoom-in” into the content of the whole app to make it bigger, as you would on a browser by pressing Cmd + (on Mac) or Ctrl + (on Windows). That should help with the readability as it will scale up all the content accordingly.

  • I’m also missing icons for the main entries in the list (e.g. Nodes, Workloads, Network,…)

This was an intended decision to have a cleaner look in the navigator and allow easier navigation; however, we’ll definitely consider your feedback for future adjustments.

Overall, thanks for providing the feedback, we’ll take all of it under consideration as we keep making adjustments to this new version.

#14

Hi,

We are currently working to include an improved mechanism to add favorites, so you can jump easier to certain resources.

Maybe I re-visit Lens, after you fixed this.

Mixed tabs:
This increases the likelines of applying changes to the wrong cluster. You should at least consider an optional automatic grouping of the tabs based on the clusters.

This was an intended decision to have a cleaner look in the navigator and allow easier navigation;

Sorry, but you achieved the opposite. Icons help to quickly understand which option you are looking at, without reading it every time. Icons help to navigate quickly, leaving the out makes it harder!

As I said, I might re-visit you tool, after you fixed what you broke with this update! You had a great tool and where on the right track, but following the mainstream design guides out there does not automatically help to make a well-functioning, quick and safe-to-use tool.
As a DevOps I want tools that support an approach which helps me to avoid potentially high impact errors. Lens just dropped out after the upgrade.

#15

We’re exploring some ideas to enhance the cluster context visibility in the new UI, and we’d love to get your feedback.

Screenshot 2024-10-10 at 11.33.11
Screenshot 2024-10-10 at 11.33.114064×2334 560 KB

As you can see in the attached image:

  • In the Navigator, we’ve added a colored line next to the active cluster. This color is automatically assigned based on the cluster but can be customized through the cluster settings if you prefer a specific color.
  • The same color is applied to the active tab, highlighting both the icon and the top border of the tab, making it easier to track which tab belongs to the active cluster.

We believe these changes could help address some of the concerns we’ve heard about quickly identifying the active cluster in the UI. Would this approach help improve your experience? We’d love to hear your thoughts and any additional suggestions!

2 Likes
#16

Thanks for addressing one issue here.

Now, pls bring back Icons for the main points in the like Workloads, Config, Network, etc… This makes navigation much easier and quicker.

I totally understand why you removed it, as “everyone” does it like this nowadays. However, this does not mean it’s good. :wink:

#17

We understand that icons can enhance navigation, and we carefully considered their role during the redesign. Our primary reason for removing them was to streamline the interface and reduce visual clutter. With the new Navigator, the icons alone wouldn’t necessarily help in differentiating between clusters, as they would look similar.

That being said, we appreciate your point and recognize that preferences for visual aids vary among users. Nothing is set in stone, and we are continually gathering feedback to evaluate how these design choices impact usability. We will certainly take your suggestion into account as we continue testing and refining the interface. Your input is invaluable as we strive to make Lens as user-friendly and efficient as possible :+1:

#18

For upcoming performance improvements, please check this thread: Selecting an item from the side-bar appears to reload the whole of lens - #12 by jakolehm

#19

This seems like a good place to add feedback, so I’ll add my own here as well.

My team manages 150+ kubernetes clusters. I have Lens pointed at a folder where I keep kubeconfigs for all of them. So now in Lens, instead of searching for a cluster by name, I have to scroll through a list to find a needle in a haystack. Likewise if I want to look at a second cluster I have to navigate AWAY from the cluster I’m viewing to the other side of the “haystack” to find a new needle. This is not usable.

I’ve been using apps with tabs for decades now and your use of tabs thoroughly confuses me. Sometimes new tabs open, sometimes they do not. I think you’re trying to be like VS Code where as I click through files it doesn’t permanently open the tab - but if that’s the intention, something is wrong. No matter what I try I end up with tabs I don’t care about. In my opinion, you should never open a new tab unless directed to do so by the user. Perhaps I ctrl-click a resource, and that opens in a new tab. If I click a resource in another cluster (after scrolling thru a huge list of clusters to find it), then open a new tab automatically - since its in a different cluster.

The performance … holy cow. Maybe its because I have 150 clusters in my list, but they are not all connected. They are just sitting there disconnected. So surely that’s not causing performance issues. I’m on an M1 Mac, its a few years old - but no other app works as poorly as Lens with regards to performance. Everything I do is slow. Even resizing the window is painful.

Unfortunately I don’t even want to roll back to an older version at this point. My company is paying for licences for my team, but until everything improves, I’m paying out of pocket for a competitor instead. It’s lightning fast, allows for multiple windows, and does everything else that Lens does. But I’m paying out of pocket instead of letting my company pay - so please fix Lens. :slight_smile:

2 Likes
#20

My team manages 150+ kubernetes clusters. I have Lens pointed at a folder where I keep kubeconfigs for all of them. So now in Lens, instead of searching for a cluster by name, I have to scroll through a list to find a needle in a haystack. Likewise if I want to look at a second cluster I have to navigate AWAY from the cluster I’m viewing to the other side of the “haystack” to find a new needle. This is not usable.

Thank you for sharing your experience! We understand how managing such a large number of clusters can become overwhelming with the current UI. You’re absolutely right—Lens is still missing some of the more efficient ways to quickly access clusters, such as the search functionality and the hotbar, which you might have used in previous versions for quick switching.

Out of curiosity, did you rely on the hotbar in the past to handle your most frequently accessed clusters? We’re actively working on improving the cluster management experience, and your feedback helps us prioritize these features.

I’ve been using apps with tabs for decades now and your use of tabs thoroughly confuses me. Sometimes new tabs open, sometimes they do not. I think you’re trying to be like VS Code where as I click through files it doesn’t permanently open the tab - but if that’s the intention, something is wrong. No matter what I try I end up with tabs I don’t care about. In my opinion, you should never open a new tab unless directed to do so by the user. Perhaps I ctrl-click a resource, and that opens in a new tab. If I click a resource in another cluster (after scrolling thru a huge list of clusters to find it), then open a new tab automatically - since its in a different cluster.

I’m really sorry that the current tab behavior has been confusing. You’re absolutely right—Lens does take inspiration from apps like VS Code. Currently, clicking in the Navigator opens a tab in “preview mode,” which then switches to a sticky tab if you interact with it. We understand that this can be frustrating, especially since the behavior differs slightly from what users are used to with VS Code, where tabs only become permanent after editing content. We’re already considering changes in this area, and your suggestion about better control over new tabs—especially across clusters—is something we’ll definitely take into account.

The performance … holy cow. Maybe its because I have 150 clusters in my list, but they are not all connected. They are just sitting there disconnected. So surely that’s not causing performance issues. I’m on an M1 Mac, its a few years old - but no other app works as poorly as Lens with regards to performance. Everything I do is slow. Even resizing the window is painful.

We completely understand your frustration here, and you’re right—there’s no excuse for poor performance. Improving performance is a top priority for us right now, and I’m happy to share that major improvements are already in progress. You should see much smoother performance soon.

In the meantime, please double-check that you’re using the Apple Silicon version of Lens Desktop on your M1 Mac. We’ve seen cases where users accidentally install the Intel version, which can definitely impact performance. Switching to the right version should help, but if you still experience issues, we’d love to hear more so we can investigate further!

Unfortunately I don’t even want to roll back to an older version at this point. My company is paying for licences for my team, but until everything improves, I’m paying out of pocket for a competitor instead. It’s lightning fast, allows for multiple windows, and does everything else that Lens does. But I’m paying out of pocket instead of letting my company pay - so please fix Lens. :slight_smile:

Thank you so much for your honest feedback—we really appreciate it. :heart: We’re genuinely sorry to hear that you’re considering alternatives, and we completely understand the frustration. Please know that we’re fully committed to addressing these issues, and we’re constantly working to make Lens faster, smoother, and more user-friendly. Hang in there—we’ll keep improving!